Ready to revolutionize your relationship with food? Tune in as we continue the conversation with Maria Recupero, a seasoned Toronto dietitian, who shares her wealth of knowledge on maintaining weight loss, portion control, and the powerhouse that is the Mediterranean Diet. Maria also introduces us to an innovative tool - the Mediterranean Diet Score Tool, which instantly appraises your eating habits against the gold standard of the Mediterranean Diet.
But our conversation doesn't end at nutrition. We discuss how processed foods and added sugars wreak havoc on our health and unpack the role of social determinants on our overall well-being. From economic status to mental health, education, and stress levels, we look at the bigger picture. Maria compellingly articulates how a shift in resources towards nutrition and education can transform our healthcare system. As a parting note, we underscore the intricate nature of nutrition and why oversimplification can be detrimental. Enjoyed the episode? Then don’t hesitate to reach out to Maria through her website for personalized guidance on your nutritional journey!
Ready to revolutionize your relationship with food? Tune in as we continue the conversation with Maria Recupero, a seasoned Toronto dietitian, who shares her wealth of knowledge on maintaining weight loss, portion control, and the powerhouse that is the Mediterranean Diet. Maria also introduces us to an innovative tool - the Mediterranean Diet Score Tool, which instantly appraises your eating habits against the gold standard of the Mediterranean Diet.
But our conversation doesn't end at nutrition. We discuss how processed foods and added sugars wreak havoc on our health and unpack the role of social determinants on our overall well-being. From economic status to mental health, education, and stress levels, we look at the bigger picture. Maria compellingly articulates how a shift in resources towards nutrition and education can transform our healthcare system. As a parting note, we underscore the intricate nature of nutrition and why oversimplification can be detrimental. Enjoyed the episode? Then don’t hesitate to reach out to Maria through her website for personalized guidance on your nutritional journey!
Welcome to the Mentally Strong Podcast. I'm Colum Sutherland, on my journey as I explore and discover all there is to know about living well with multiple sclerosis. I'm a normal guy who has recently diagnosed and started treatment. I will share with you my conversations with others who are living with this chronic condition and with professionals who provide resources and advice. My hope is that you gain inspiration and ideas to improve your life. Welcome back to the Mentally Strong Podcast. This is part two of a great conversation with Maria Recupero, a dietitian at a Toronto. I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2:What we know from weight loss trials is that weight loss will occur within the first few months, maybe even up to about a year, and then, beyond that point, weight regain, particularly at two years, starts to happen For most individuals, about two thirds of all individuals. There are different stats here, but between 80 and 90% of people who lose weight will regain it by five years. So weight loss, maintaining weight loss, is difficult. It's difficult to lose weight. It's even more difficult to maintain that weight and that's where exercise plays a key role at maintaining lost weight. So, once again, it can be very difficult. I try to work with people as best I can and I look at it from a safety perspective. And are people? What are they missing out on when they are perhaps restricting right or eliminating a major food group, which is again restriction?
Speaker 1:One of the things I've liked about the Mediterranean way is I don't feel I'm restricted, which leads to a great question, because maybe I'm doing this part wrong. What's portion control life with Mediterranean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the million dollar question right, how much should I be eating? That comes up a lot and you know, when you look at once again the evidence, evidence does show that for most people, and this is why I think it does tend to be a pattern of eating that is more sustainable for most people is that people don't feel, number one, like they're eliminating a major food group or any particular foods, I mean even like there's even room for desserts. It's not like an everyday thing, but there's room for that. It's what people do 80% of the time. That matters. But coming back to your question about portion and monitoring, or, you know, being mindful of portions, this is a little trickier. So there are specific amounts that are listed and we've learned that from the trials and what's been included in these trials that have been conducted.
Speaker 2:I would like to share with your listeners a tool that I think people would find very interesting, and on this tool there are specifics about portions. So you know, if you thought the first response that I had was a lot, this would be even more detailed. So I'm not going to fall into that trap again, but I would like to direct your listeners to. People can just simply Google this. It's called the Mediterranean Diet Score Tool. This was a tool that was developed by a group of dietitians in the UK and it's open access so you can download it. Even better still, people can Google Cardiac College and that will send people to a website to a fabulous center. I am biased, but I used to work there, but I no longer work there so but I love plugging the program. This was the cardiac program, where you know folks would go to the center to exercise and that was part of their rehab after a heart attack or bypass surgery. They have on this website Cardiac College. They have nicely put together the Mediterranean Diet Score Tool online where you answer the questions that pop up and at the end of it you get immediate feedback and you get a score.
Speaker 2:It's important to know that. You know this score. It's not about past fail, good, bad or the other. It's really about just assessing and recognizing where you're starting from. We call that baseline and then deciding whether or not you want to make changes right Like and again coming back to at the beginning of our conversation what's one change or one thing that you think you could do different if you wanted to go that route, and then that would be a way of increasing your score. The higher the score, the more aligned your pattern of eating is with the Mediterranean Diet. So I think this is a fabulous. It's validated, it's been tested, so it is accurate. What's interesting about this score? When people can improve their score by two points, that is synonymous with decreasing your risk of getting a heart attack or stroke by 10%. It's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2:So I'm not directly answering your question about portion sizes, because I do think that you know for specifics. I think it's what's important is well, think about how often You're including certain foods, like the recommendation is to include fatty fish, if you can, if you like it right, at least twice a week, and the standard portion Is about four to five ounces. So if you look at the palm of your hands, recognizing that people come in all different shapes and sizes, but it's relative to the body that you're in. So, looking at the palm of your hand, that's roughly For maybe five ounces. For some it might be three ounces, right? So again, it's relative to your body size that's funny.
Speaker 1:You say that because I did a bad diet 20 years ago and one of the things that stuck with me His recommendation for portion control was size of your fist or palm and I still use it. I've used, I continue to use it. I also with the Mediterranean way. If half of my plate is Spinach, I don't really worry about calories in the other half of the plate.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I'm glad that you say that, colin, because you know I'm not one to promote focusing on calories, and I do think the hand measures, as we call them, can serve as useful Guides for people, because sometimes, you know, maybe we just don't know and we need some kind of parameter, right, just something to go by. I can fully appreciate that. What I would like to highlight for your listeners is at some point, though, or Maybe right from the get-go, we don't want to be Ignoring what's happening internally for us. So if we're only relying on an external cue, meaning the plate size or our palm hand measures, that can be a start, but if we're not also recognizing that, hey, I'm still hungry after that, or maybe that, like, I'm really uncomfortably full After having that amount, that's important information to also take into account.
Speaker 2:That's what I call the internal cue, and it's also been termed as intuitive eating. Right, so, just recognizing when you're at and that it's okay if you feel like you need to have more. That's not a bad thing. People are afraid to eat right there, they're fearful of gaining weight, and so a lot of times we think that, quote-unquote. To be healthy, we need to be uncomfortable in our bodies, and Again, I don't, I don't believe that to be the case.
Speaker 1:So I find that very interesting. I'm gonna leave it alone because then we're gonna get into a calorie is a calorie debate and I don't want to do that today. I Wish you guys could see your face right now. I said that Maybe I do want to do video one day. No, I don't. I. I guess the next three or four questions are very specific and probably bias, based on what I like and as I'm switching over to the Mediterranean way. The first one a quick comment from you on what's the debate with olive oil. Can all oil wise, mediterranean, olive oil wise, half the world saying don't drink an oil or eat it. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Well, the bottom line is, when you look at the evidence, olive oil is what was used, right, and so with any recommendation that comes out, it's gonna be important that you mimic what was done during the study. The other thing, too, is when we consider the Mediterranean diet and those studies, there were five countries in the Mediterranean that were followed, so Greece, spain, italy, france that's four, maybe it was just those four and so olive oil is typically used in those regions, and that's where that recommendation comes from Canola oil. There's lots of buzz out there, lots of different Opinions, and I do want to highlight that it really is opinion based and I'm not Going to downplay or dismiss people's opinions. But at the end of the day, as a registered dietitian, it's important for me to speak to the evidence, because we're an evidence-based society. Otherwise, people could say whatever the heck they wanted, right, and so I can.
Speaker 2:I think they do and they do, and they do and make it sound like there's evidence. So the reality is, when you take a look at the profile of canola oil, it's very similar to olive oil in that their categorized or defined as being what we call mono unsaturated fats. So it's just based on their structure. Canola oil actually does have a Higher amount of omega-3 fats, which for some, that can make it more favorable. From that perspective.
Speaker 2:The bottom line is that, in terms of like melting point, there's a myth that with olive oil, that we shouldn't be cooking with olive oil because it has a low melting point or boiling point, and that's a myth. Canola oil does have a higher melting point. So I think for things like if you are going to be frying foods or like sauteing, you could saute with olive oil, but if you're going to be using Higher temperatures, yeah sure, the canola oil is going to be more favorable. It's also more neutral in flavor, and so I do oftentimes suggest that to other folks as an alternative for, depending on the type of cuisine that you're cooking, if you don't want the strong flavor, some people think that olive oil has a stronger flavor. So I personally do not oppose the use of canola oil, for if people have Serious reservations, there's always organic canola oil that people could go with. Like I said, there's lots of stories and I don't know.
Speaker 1:Social media concerns that come up right the other one when I see Mediterranean diet Suggested menus, restrictions on egg, restrictions on dairy and restrictions on red meat.
Speaker 2:That's interesting Because the true Mediterranean pattern of eating does not restrict anything, and certainly not those foods, and you know. So, as I mentioned at the outset, it's not a vegetarian pattern of eating. There is room for animal-based foods, like fresh meats, poultry and dairy, but in limited amounts, right? So thinking when I say limited amounts, like frequency, consider frequency of consumption amounts, portions at one time. Processed meats, sausages, deli meats, hot dogs, female bacon for Canadians, right, bacon. So process meats, that isn't typically part of the Mediterranean. Yes, I know these foods do exist in those regions, but the studies that have been done, that's not. Again, that has not been the focus. People have their own twists, I guess, on the Mediterranean pattern of eating and so that was a menu item that came around. That's not actually accurate.
Speaker 1:I said restriction. Maybe it should use a different term, like one of the menus was eggs twice a week, I see.
Speaker 2:Okay, when it comes to eggs, well, this is always a hot topic, and it's amazing. Food is very controversial and eggs is a controversial topic.
Speaker 1:That's why I was excited to have you on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I remember when I first started practicing yep, we were I learned that too right no more than two egg yolks a week. Egg whites were fine every day. It's the egg yolk that is problematic. It's high in cholesterol. Well, fast forward several years. We have learned a lot and we do recognize. Well, while that hasn't changed, the yolk does remain to be high in cholesterol.
Speaker 2:We know that it's not cholesterol in food that impacts cholesterol in the body. That may seem odd, but that is the reality because, physiologically, if we're getting enough from our diet, our liver recognizes where there isn't like a strong family history of you know what we call hyperlipidemia or high cholesterol, the body knows that it doesn't need to make it. Our bodies are amazing, amazing machines, right, they know it's always working toward what we call homeostasis balance. It's trans fats that are problematic and there's no controversy there. We know that trans fats, which are what are often referred to as being industrially produced fats you'll notice them or you can identify them on a food package in the ingredient list terms like partially hydrogenated oils. Even if you see hydrogenated oils, while they do mean different things for the purposes of the label, food companies don't have to differentiate. So you can. It would be prudent or safe to assume that you're likely getting some trans fat, even if it says zero trans under the nutritional profile.
Speaker 2:So, coming back to eggs, there really is, when you look at the Mediterranean diet, evidence. There really is no suggestion or recommendation for the number of eggs. Eggs actually, funnily enough and interestingly enough, doesn't get mentioned a lot of the time, and so in my review of the literature I've come to recognize and see and learned that intake can be anywhere from zero eggs a week to as much as four times a week. So what I assess from that is eggs should not be restricted.
Speaker 2:I think eggs, too, are an excellent source of protein. You're getting complete, high levels of all your amino acids. These are the building blocks of proteins that are required. They can also be economical for a lot of people too. So you know where meats or I mean beans can be economical as well, but eggs can really contribute to an overall more nutritious pattern of eating. So I certainly don't suggest that people remove them or cut them out. And when you look at other research, research does show that having an egg a day, this is in folks with what we call primary prevention, so folks who have not had a heart attack or stroke or diabetes. They're not living with chronic illness. Having an egg a day has been associated with decreasing the risk of heart disease.
Speaker 1:Excellent Greek yogurt. When I say Greek yogurt, not the one with all the added sugar, I'm talking plain Greek yogurt. And then I add berries and nuts, not the really high sugar type.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that is a great way of helping to reduce one's overall added sugar intake, right. So relying on the fresh whole source whenever possible. You mentioned Greek yogurt. Greek yogurt tends to be higher in protein compared to regular yogurt. I'm going to lump yogurt generally here, because while the Mediterranean diet highlights that dairy high fat dairy it's not the emphasis or focus.
Speaker 2:There's other research, research that actually looked at the dash pattern of eating, the dash diet and that is an acronym that stands for dietary approaches to stopping hypertension or high blood pressure, and so a lot of similarities between the dash diet and the Mediterranean diet. One of the two fundamental differences number one when it comes to the dash diet, it was the inclusion of two servings of lower fat dairy products every day, and so that could be three quarters of a cup of plain yogurt. A cup of milk and cheese was also included in that, but what that showed was that, as part of an overall balance pattern of eating, the inclusion of these dairy products did help to bring an overall reduction in blood pressure. Yeah, was it the calcium and magnesium in the dairy? Or, again, as part of a overall balanced, nutritious diet?
Speaker 2:And that's the problem with nutrition research it's very hard to pinpoint. What is it that's contributing the benefit? Or, again, we're moving away from focusing on nutrients per se, like cholesterol or even fat or even fiber, but looking at an overall pattern of eating, because the reality is you could include a green leafy vegetable every day, but if the rest of what you're eating doesn't align with general guidelines for, as we know healthy eating to be, chances are you're not gonna get the same health benefits right? So focusing on food, not nutrients, is really the way to go moving forward, and that's why you can't take a supplement to replace food. It doesn't work the same way.
Speaker 1:That question's coming. You're not stealing that one from me.
Speaker 2:I tried.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no eggs. Before I started leaning towards Mediterranean diet, I aim for a certain protein intake. That's why I use Greek yogurt. Cottage cheese was the other one, and then eggs were sort of they were the ones I've read were limited or not in there. The one that I think is probably most controversial or a lot of controversy, is red meat. Yeah, just in general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know. I just wanna add another point about dairy, if I may. Please do not choose low fat or fat free. I think most people would be happy to hear that this is, and I really mean it. So I do oftentimes suggest lower fat, but that's very different from low fat or fat free, and the reason being that there's just you end up getting food that's more heavily processed, with a lot more additives and fillers and sometimes higher in sodium or sugar for that matter, and you're losing out on the nutritional benefit value and, most importantly, to people, flavor right.
Speaker 2:So it's important in joy food.
Speaker 1:Agreed. Just to clarify, and this is the first one that popped into my head I'm like, okay, don't do low fat, don't do no fat. So if I'm looking at the tubs of cottage cheese, there's zero, one, two, four.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Two.
Speaker 2:Totally fine. Okay, yeah, one or two, absolutely.
Speaker 1:That makes sense, and I've heard that before. That's not the first time I've heard skip the zero fat.
Speaker 2:Right, right. So, coming back to your question about meat, you know, again, food is controversial and there is lots of evidence to support following a vegetarian and even vegan pattern of eating. But, as I mentioned before, that's not for everybody right, and for some people that would be considered a restriction, right. But it depends on what your values are, the choices that you want to make and, again, this is a recurring theme what is going to be a sustainable practice for you? I'm not opposed the consumption of meat. I'd be a hypocrite, I eat it myself.
Speaker 2:I'm not vegetarian, right, but looking at the distribution and the balance of what one may be doing. So, once again, if we come back to the core principles of a Mediterranean pattern of eating and if you don't want to call it Mediterranean pattern of eating, maybe plant-based eating is more appropriate, right, so that we get away from these titles, perhaps. But the bottom line is working toward, or moving toward, including more plant foods, more color, and when we do that, oftentimes by default, other behavior changes around food just automatically take place by default, right?
Speaker 2:So if you're making more room for beans, you might not have as large of a portion of meat because you're adding something else. So I do feel that it's important to a lot of times. When people come to me or ask questions, they'll oftentimes ask what do I need to cut out? And I'd like to turn that around to say well, rather than thinking about what you need to eliminate or remove or cut out, because then you're left with maybe nothing think more about what you need to add in or what you could be adding in. And I'm very mindful of the fact that the Mediterranean pattern of eating in itself is controversial for some, because I mentioned food insecurity earlier, right, and people will oftentimes comment on well, it's an expensive way of eating and how can you expect people to afford to eat all these foods, right? Quote unquote healthy foods are expensive and while that is true in some cases and other ways, there can be some cost savings, right? So, making more room for beans and it doesn't have to get fancy or time consuming, you know, yes, sure, it would be ideal.
Speaker 2:You soaked your beans or had a pressure cooker and you cooked your beans from. You know they were from the package, that's dry. But maybe to start off, especially if this is a new area for folks. Use cans, beans, rinse them and then add them. It really cuts back, cuts down on a lot of the work or the effort in terms of preparation and they're providing you with the same nutritional health benefit. So it's finding these shortcuts and can beans tend to be very economical right, especially if you're not comfortable in the kitchen. So, accounting for food skills and comfort level, I think this is all very important as well.
Speaker 1:I find your point interesting and this is my personal experience, and I could be way wrong. Well, the first one I know I'm not wrong on. I've listened to a ton of podcasts on nutrition over the last four months. I've not had anyone say anything negative towards the Mediterranean diet, except for one which we agreed not to talk about. If you're wondering what I'm talking about, you can go Google pectin and debate it yourself. Or lectin sorry, not pectin. Pectin's a different, lectin, different topic. The second part is I haven't really noticed a significant difference, if any difference, in my grocery bill since I switched over. Maybe that meant I was eating similar before and that's why, but I really haven't noticed much of a difference. I don't find it. I'm not sitting here going, oh, my grocery bill went up because of my spinach. That's not what I'm seeing.
Speaker 2:That's great to hear. That's great to hear and, to your point or others, maybe it's perception too I do think there is some validity to it. I mean, food insecurity is a serious issue in our nation. We don't often think about that because we live in Canada, right North America, but there is poverty here and many people are actually living below the poverty line, eating more nutritious foods. If you're not aware of what choices to make, if that guidance isn't available or you can't get that information for whatever reason, I can see how it can be potentially problematic or challenging. I know you're not saying that, but I want to point that out. No, I definitely hear you, but I want to point that out because I just want to be mindful of the fact that people are in different places, right?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. There's a definite issue with being able to afford food, especially right now in no way. I agree with that 100%. In comparison to switching over, I didn't notice that much of a difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm scared to ask this question.
Speaker 2:You're scaring me now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, All right. Red wine.
Speaker 2:I thought I could get away with it. Yeah, you will probably notice that I did not highlight that as one of the four principles. Yeah, and for obvious reasons, right, especially given the most recent guidelines.
Speaker 1:So it's so healthy for you. That's why you don't need to talk about it.
Speaker 2:So, for your listeners who may not be aware, earlier studies focusing on the Mediterranean way of eating, that was part of it as well.
Speaker 2:So the inclusion of one or two glasses of red wine most days of the week, it was part of a Mediterranean pattern of eating.
Speaker 2:That is, especially given the recent guidelines that have shown and you know, surprisingly, but maybe not so surprisingly right, that I hope, okay, I want to get this right. So including and this is particularly for women two drinks a week is the recommendation that was given from the latest research and guidelines that have come out, because beyond that amount the risk of cancer increases. So when we look at Mediterranean diet studies, oftentimes some things are changing now because more research is being done. But a lot of that was focused on cardiac health right and primary and secondary prevention and we're learning more and we do know that there is a definite, very strong link between alcohol intake and increased cancer risk for both men and women. I don't comment on it typically because you know maybe there's some benefit. I think there's more risk associated with it than there is benefit and because it is a drug, it's not something that I want to encourage people to start doing if they're not already doing.
Speaker 1:And I said I was scared because I know the answer. No one's going to convince me that alcohol is good for you. I love having a glass of wine with dinner. I don't do it all the time. I enjoy doing it. But as I see it in there, as I'm reading and I'm seeing, I'm like yeah and I'm like that's just not true.
Speaker 1:Yeah wishful thinking, although I think I mentioned a diet earlier and they also had two glasses of red wine with dinner, or up to two glasses of red wine with dinner. So wishful thinking. We're almost out of time. Two more questions for you. A supplementation, what are your? Just in general, I think you commented on earlier about getting your vitamins and minerals from your food.
Speaker 2:It's a great question, absolutely so. As a registered dietitian, we do promote food first, and if you consider the words. So back to words, the word supplement is just that Anytime a supplement or a nutrient is indicated, it's to supplement what you're already doing by way of food, and so when there is a deficiency, right. So if someone has an iron deficiency, vitamin D deficiency, absolutely Supplementation is warranted, it's needed. Same could be said for any other nutrient, like B12, what have you Otherwise. Again, you know trying to get your nutrients from food first, and I realize that that can be challenging, right? Maybe they're like calcium we need in abundance, and if you don't like dairy or some of those alternative to dairy product like beverages, it's going to be challenging to get the amounts that you need. So is it as a supplement warranted in that case? It might be, but this is where and I'm going to plug registered dietitians this is where it can be very helpful to meet with a registered dietitian who can walk through what a typical day looks like for you in the way of food and eating. They can make an assessment and provide you some guidance, because when we supplement, we're getting therapeutic. Oftentimes there's that potential to get therapeutic doses, you're getting a much more concentrated amount or dose of that nutrient than you would if you just had food alone. That's spread out over a course of the day or at one time. We also don't know if it's again that one nutrient alone that's beneficial, or is it the fact that in food we're getting more than one nutrient? So is there that synergistic effect, that benefit that's bringing about that benefit? What have you? There have been studies that looked at people taking supplements, different scenarios and there was harm. So there is always that potential. A good example of this is fish oils, right, omega-3 oils. Some people cannot tolerate them at high doses and it can lead to because there's anti-coagulant properties, which means it could. People oftentimes refer to it as like thinning the blood. It's not actually thinning the blood, but it can reduce clotting factor and it can make people susceptible to nosebleeds or delayed healing, right. So there are these factors to consider and I think it's always helpful to your doctor, may know and may be able to provide you with some information. I think definitely a registered dietitian can help and your pharmacist. Pharmacists are a great resource, so make use of them and I know, like in our province of Ontario, you can book 30 minutes with a pharmacist to talk about any prescription medications you're taking, and it may be possible to talk to them about supplementation as well.
Speaker 2:Now, having said that, my answers are very long, I know. Having said that, there is one nutrient or vitamin that I do often recommend people take by way of supplement, and that's because it's very difficult to get from food, and that's vitamin D. Yes, we can get vitamin D from the sun, but most of us aren't exposed on a regular daily basis to receive the UVB rays that are required to help our kidneys manufacture the vitamin D right. So it's oftentimes called the sunshine vitamin, and if you're wearing sunblock, that's blocking those rays. So it's very difficult to get that, and especially in our climate, where we're not, we don't have a lot of sunshine. It's an issue. Most people are deficient or they're like the lower end of their normal ideal target.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you said it because it's the only supplement that my neurologist suggested I take immediate, like it was immediate the first day I met him. Are you taking vitamin D? Yeah, I've also read or listened that they think there might be a link between high multiple sclerosis sclerosis diagnosis in Canada because of our climate, because of lack of vitamin D.
Speaker 2:You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1:There's no evidence on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to mention that too. And vitamin D, like I said, I think we you know. I want to emphasize that I'm calling out like associations, not causation the totally different thing. But there are definite associations with not just with MS, but low vitamin D levels, and have been associated with diabetes and heart disease and other chronic conditions, cancer being one of them as well. So there's something there, right, when you see something show up over and over again, again not saying causation, but definitely a link, the amount.
Speaker 2:This is controversial and I know there will be people who will disagree with me. I tend to suggest or recommend now Health Canada has come out with 2,500 international units per tablet that you can purchase and that's the amount that I would recommend. There's other recommendations out there to go for 5,000, maybe even higher. There is research that shows that there's benefit to doing that. It's not. The guidelines still recommends that a tolerable upper limit is 4,000, which again has been argued that that's still too low. Bottom line is you're safe taking 2,500 international units. It's not too little, it's not too much and every day, all throughout the year. That's what I would recommend.
Speaker 1:And my neurologist said 4,000.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, were you deficient, did you have?
Speaker 1:low levels? No, it wasn't even. I don't even think he measured it. This is a great segue to my next question. One of the reasons I don't like taking supplements I do take some is I consider it processed food. The main purpose of having you on is I want to live well with multiple sclerosis. I'm assuming, if people are listening, they want to do the same In terms of health of our society. What do you think, or how impactful are processed foods and sugar in terms of causing what we're seeing in terms of healthcare?
Speaker 2:We know. We know that there's enough evidence to show that, hey, there's greater benefits shown when people are including more fresh whole foods. There is evidence that shows that you know high intakes of added sugars not sugars that are naturally occurring in food, added sugars, so things like that typically show up in highly processed foods. So sugar itself, syrups, jams, anything, any terms?
Speaker 1:that you see.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, absolutely. We say pop here in Canada.
Speaker 1:I was being inclusive.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know you're getting a very, very high amount of sugars from a lot of these foods and we know that there is a greater risk of chronic illness with these foods. I also think it's important to look at the bigger picture here as well, right? Yes, food gets a lot of attention and it's easy to point the finger at these things, but also recognizing that you know the social determinants of health people's economic status, stress level, like their mental health, level of education all these factors do contribute to one's health and well-being. And a lot of times you know where people are living below the poverty line, so economically they're not stable.
Speaker 2:It's not uncommon for people to make choices around food that are going to be inexpensive. Like you know, they're gonna choose foods that are more inexpensive and some of these foods tend not to be very nutritious. So it's very multifactorial and I just wanna bring that up so that we continue to look at the whole bigger picture that addressing basic income is. It would be more of an issue and, who knows, if we would likely see a change right In people's overall patterns. I don't know, but I do think it's an important place to start.
Speaker 1:I'm getting political now, so yeah, my tongue is bleeding, and not because you're getting political side. I do see it similar in a different way, in that our healthcare system right now, when I'm stealing someone's word is a sick care system, right.
Speaker 2:I agree yes.
Speaker 1:We're looking after people who are already ill and the one, and this gets complicated and we don't have time to go there. But I would love to have a continuous blood glucose monitor attached to my arm all the time so I can see how food affects me, but it's just cost prohibitive at this point. They're available, I can do it for sure, but it's cost prohibitive. But what would that save down the road? If I'm doing that, if we take the money from healthcare and put it towards low income for food, how would that save our healthcare system? Now maybe I'm getting on a platform and I apologize, but we have so much talk about everyone's sick and the healthcare system is overwhelmed, and I think that's both in the US and Canada. If we diverted our resources to nutrition and the food, reading and another level exercise, I totally agree with you and education, and a different one Education right.
Speaker 1:Oh, we're doing the education right now, so yeah.
Speaker 2:It's complicated, right, it's complex. It's complex. I don't think it's. You know, you can talk about it. I don't think it's complicated, but it is complex, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny. You say that. I don't remember who said it and I'd love to quote them, but they said nutrition is made complex so everyone can keep their jobs. It's pretty simple, but we got to make it complex so everyone has their jobs. Joking, half joking, I'm not sure, but I thought it was funny.
Speaker 1:I hope everyone found today very useful and learned a lot. I know I did. I am so grateful that we connected and you came on today. This has been everything I wanted. I won't say more because there's a few times I've kept it quiet so we weren't here all day. I love this topic. It is. I think it's complex because it's so hard to decipher what's good and what's bad and what's proven and what's not proven. And it was one client or it was 3,000 people that did this and it worked. And, to your point, we don't know what's causing it to work in the body. Is it one thing or is it a combination of? Like? You made so many great points today. It's impossible for someone to walk away from this and not be more confident in what they need to do, even if it's just the little thing that we've talked about. So thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me and I hope I didn't make it more complex. That was not my intention. Yeah, so I hope there were some take-homes for people and I think, on one level, recognizing that, yes, it is complex, it's not a bad thing either, because I do think some of the harm that's caused out there is trying to simplify things too much. We must stop.
Speaker 1:But you. I just I'm gonna finish with this, you don't make it complicated. I think social media makes it complicated, with Twitter, facebook and my slight addiction of podcasting not podcasting listening to podcasts is my addiction, but it does make it complex. Where can people find you?
Speaker 2:Thanks for asking, so I can be contacted through my website, which is my name Maria Recupero so M-A-R-I-A-R-I-C-U-P-E-R-OC-A.
Speaker 1:It'll be in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Column, Thanks everyone.
Speaker 1:If you've liked this episode, loved this episode, enjoyed it as much as I did Please share it, please like it and please reach out to Maria and let her help you, because she obviously has the expertise. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.