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Mentally Strong
I'm Callum Sutherland and my goal is to thrive despite having Multiple Sclerosis.
Join me on my journey and listen to inspirational people who are thriving and overcoming their obstacles tell their stories. I will interview experts in the medical field, fitness, nutrition, social connection, stress reduction, etc. seeking guidance to help us all live healthier and happier lives.
Please send an email if you are interested in being on the Podcast or if you are interested in having me share my story on your Podcast.
Episodes are hosted at https://mentallystrongwithms.buzzsprout.com/share
Blog https://callumsutherland.wordpress.com/
Email mentallystongms@gmail.com
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@MentallyStrong-2023MS
Mentally Strong
Stress-Relief and being Present
Are you constantly in battle with stress and seeking ways to enhance your health? Imagine if you could transform your reality and manage life's stressful moments with the power of meditation. This week, we journey through the world of meditation with our guest, Amandolin, a certified meditation instructor with profound insights on mindful living.
We begin our quest by discussing how meditation can be an effective tool in managing everyday stress. Amanda describes the integral role of breath in the practice and the potential for meditation to replace calming rituals like smoking. She guides us through the transformative power of meditation and its ability to alter our perception of reality, emphasizing the importance of being present and the significant health benefits that come along with it.
Starting a meditation practice can be a challenge, especially if sitting still or quieting your mind isn't your forte. But, Amanda encourages us to see our thoughts as a river—something we can observe without getting caught up in. She talks about the significance of having a teacher guide you in your practice and how simple techniques, like breath work, can offer empowerment.
To learn more or connect with Amandolin visit www.awarenesswithamandolin.com or follow her on Instagram at www.Instagram.com/_amandolin
Welcome to the Mentally Strong podcast. I am Colm Sutherland. As some of you may know, in January of this year I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and started treatment. The reason for this podcast is to delve more into how people with multiple sclerosis can live a longer and healthier life. Most of these principles apply to everyone, but they're especially important for people suffering from this chronic illness. One of the challenges with multiple sclerosis is maintaining your stress levels and staying focused on the present moment. We never know what's around their corner and when relapses are going to occur.
Speaker 1:Today's episode is all about meditation. Today I talk to Amanda Lin. She's a meditation teacher certified by well-known teacher David Nickturn, dharma Moon and the Tibet House US. She hosts the podcast Awareness of Amanda Lin, where she speaks with musicians, authors, painters, animators, filmmakers and more about their process and creativity. I really enjoyed this conversation and it gives meditation a little bit more meaning in how it can be useful in your life, whether you have multiple sclerosis, any other chronic illness or disease, or you're just trying to be healthy and reduce our stress levels. I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. Hi, amanda, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Hello I really appreciate you coming on. One of the themes that I've undertaken as I've gone forward with this investigation into how to live better with multiple sclerosis is stress tends to cause relapses. I don't know if that's scientifically proven, but I know when people have talked to they definitely feel worse with stress. But I think I can probably say that globally that if you're stressed you probably don't feel so good. I think that can be said for everyone. Often I've heard meditation is good for stress and it's a way to manage it In your experience. Do you think that's true? If you don't, the rest of the podcast is screwed.
Speaker 2:No, I do think it's true. I think in the West meditation does get introduced to a lot of people here through the selling point of stress reduction. It does in fact do that. I do have many students who can attest to that experience. I personally can say that it completely reduces stress, because what I think simply happens is the more that you are present, the less that you are elsewhere in your mind. When you're elsewhere in your mind, you're more likely to make stories or narrations about the past or the future. When you're in those two places, you can have a very creative or sometimes stressful or mean or negative or anxiety-ridden storytelling going on about the past or the future. Then that does create stress in which affects the body a lot. I do see a correlation there. I think science is definitely leaning into this really interesting place where we are seeing that the way that you feel, your perception of your day-to-day life and your reality, deeply affects your physical health as well. There's a lot more to it. We're slowly but surely uncovering that truth, I think.
Speaker 1:That's a good point. It's not what I thought you'd say Staying present and exactly how you worded it about being in the future and being in the past and putting your own narrative on it. That helps. Do you think that is the bigger factor, or do you think breathing has something to do with it as well?
Speaker 2:I think the breath is hard for me to untie breath work and meditation. It's really hard for me to untie it because, in the basis of mindfulness meditation, which many are starting to be more familiar with, step two of it when I teach, is connect with your breath. It's like that breath becomes an anchor in your meditation practice. It's really hard for me to untie the two. I feel like they're so correlated and anyone who's done breath work or any breathing exercise can see that they can manipulate how they are feeling physically and mentally, all through that breath connection. That's why, when a woman gives birth, they teach her breath work techniques. In these high stress situations, if someone's having an anxiety attack, it's often taught to have them do it.
Speaker 2:A four to eight count breath Through the nose for four, hold for two, out for eight. It really brings them back into their body. The other thing that they teach them which again, people might not tie this into mindfulness or meditation is hey, ground yourself, name some things around you. Blah, blah, blah. That's all about being present. All these techniques that people in the medical fields have been trained and taught are deeply rooted in the ability to get present. Get clear, try to let go of any other stories or judgments or bias about this present moment and act intentionally in the way that you wish, with clarity.
Speaker 1:I have an interesting perspective on the breathing and I don't know if I'm just full of it. I used to smoke for 10 years and one of the things about smoking is you hear a lot of people go. It relaxes me. The main thing you're doing when you're smoking is you are breathing. The problem is you're breathing in something toxic that causes cancer, but you're breathing in and breathing out and you're intentionally breathing and it calms you down. I don't even think it's the smoking that calms you down. I think it's the breathing.
Speaker 2:I think you're 100% right. Think about it A lot of people in the last few decades. When they're smoking, there's a whole ritual to it. It is like a ritual. They decide, hey, it's time for that, I need that space or that time. Then they go outside, presumably so they're outside in nature, which automatically feels good. Then they are doing these deep inhales and letting go. It's like, yes, if you took the cigarette out of that equation, you're doing something pretty profound here. It's really funny, and not surprising to me, that people would be addicted to that because they're addicted to the feeling it gives. But they could have that feeling without the cigarette. Then obviously we know they get physically addicted to the nicotine. That's why that comes along. Yes, I totally see what you're saying there. I think that's a very valid theory to have.
Speaker 1:There's also the social connection to I would say it of everything that I miss about smoking, it was the social connection, because you have a sense of belonging with that group. Depending on what you're doing, you meet up with the same people every day. You're present.
Speaker 2:there You're looking at each other in your eyes. You're saying, hi, how's it going? It's today good, it's today bad. You give your little pep talk to your friends. He's having a hard time. They give you one when you are. It's like everything about the culture is super helpful, except for that part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, except for the dying part of it.
Speaker 2:Thankfully we know now we can experience all those things without including the cigarette.
Speaker 1:We dove right in. I'm going to back up a step, of course. How do you define meditation? What is meditation to you?
Speaker 2:Such a tricky one because there's so many forms. But, simply put, when I teach mindfulness, I say we're trying to come to the present moment. No judgment, no bias, that simple. Because if you take that and you just digest that simple fact, it's like okay, so I'm here, things are happening, there's a hum, there's life happening around me. I'm choosing that to get distracted by it.
Speaker 2:Okay, I thought, came up, I'm labeled it, thinking Let it go, keep coming back. Oh, now I have this feeling about how the meditation is going. Okay, let's not get drugged, let's not do that, let's come back. It's like this continual coming back to the present moment. I think that foundation is probably the most clear, concise explanation I can give to anyone who's never meditated before, or if they have, about what you're doing, what your actual practice is, because from the outside it obviously looks like someone just sitting there. It's like that's the best explanation I can give is you're coming back, connecting to that breath because it is naturally arriving, so it doesn't pull you anywhere. You're coming back to the present over and over and over again. Then, if you get into different forms of meditation, because there's so many wonderful ones to explore, fundamentally, whatever they are, you are still present in all of them. I feel like that's a good box around it if you have to put one to explain to anybody listening that might not know anything about it at all.
Speaker 1:What brought you into it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So a lot of factors. I knew I was going to become a mother. I knew I wanted to be more mindful. I knew I had anxiety. I knew that was real for me.
Speaker 2:I had had an anxiety attack where I could have sworn something was wrong with my heart. And then you got people at your door checking you out because you just swear you're having a heart attack and they're like listen, you're not. This is anxiety. Most likely, all your vitals are good. And I was like, whoa, this is a wake up call, because I didn't even know, like you know, having anxiety.
Speaker 2:It seemed like a throwaway thing, like, oh, that's just the nervous part of my personality, no big deal, like it's just part of me. I didn't know it could actually manifest into like physical symptoms and things like I had experienced that day. So there was a lot of like little things that led to the curiosity and a lot of people I admired had been talking about meditation. I was reading a lot of books about presence. I was, you know, consuming a lot of philosophy and all kinds of things, and it seemed like there was this underlying thread of people having a daily meditation practice and I was like, you know, no one's ever taught me this. No one in my real life in Ohio had ever even mentioned, you know, meditation to me.
Speaker 1:You didn't learn in school.
Speaker 2:No, no, yeah, I know right, if only, oh, the world would be such a better place. But yeah, there was no like real root and if anything, it was like all my preconceived notions about what it was kept me away, because it was like, oh, it's like, you know, someone just becoming really boring or like passive or quiet, and it's like none of like. I'm so fiery, I'm so excitable. I love R, I love like. All of it seemed so oppositional to me. Little did I know. What I know now, which is that it's so alive and it's so energetic and it's so powerful, and it is all the things that I already was, and now I understand them more. So it did circle back around to an understanding.
Speaker 2:But long story short, I had a lot of experiences. Motherhood was definitely the biggest prompter like that that was coming and I started meditating and I just had my own practice. You know, I was just a practitioner and I was just, you know, bringing myself along for the ride. I didn't even consider like trying to find a place to meditate. I was definitely like doing like the solo journey for a long time and I finally realized how much I had changed after a few years.
Speaker 2:So after a few years, I started noticing my perception of everything is changing.
Speaker 2:How I deal with everything is changing. My anxiety is this thing that I greet, say hello and say goodbye Like this is not something that I knew was possible when I was in the midst of it, and so it was like this big hello, how come not everybody is talking about this transformative thing that's free to do, like it doesn't cost you a thing and you know you can learn from a teacher, which I highly recommend, because once I started learning with my teacher which I can tell you about later it really catapulted things way further along, because I was finally getting questions answered, I was finally getting insights from someone who had done this for way longer than me and it was very helpful. But I just knew I had to do it. I knew that it was changing me. I had markers and I can share any of those stories, if you would like of where it was like clear as day, like wow, different person. And then I decided to teach and that's when I met my teacher and learned from him.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go back for a second, because you used two words alive and energetic with meditation. Tell me more about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think it's kind of like a big misconception that it is all only about stillness, and I think that anyone who's meditated for even a year like even just a year consistently can tell you that, like, at a certain point you go into the meditation, you're there, you're present and everything comes to life, like everything around you is just living and breathing and it's so clear to you that, wow, we're really like, this is all really happening. Like you start to like disengage from the stories that we talked about earlier, you start to stop caring about how it looks or how it is, or you're just so there and then you connect. So if you're outside meditating, it could be this deep connection with the trees around you. If you're inside and you're with others, I found it very profound to meditate with others when they all arrive and everyone there's like this felt energy of like, wow, we're all here, this is really happening, it's all alive and there is like this energy current to the entire situation that inspires. It inspires. So it doesn't just inspire clarity, it doesn't just inspire the ability to be less stressed.
Speaker 2:I think what I find the most interesting at this point in my journey is the glimmers, the like. Oh, reality is so fascinating and it's full of surprises, and I'm constantly surprised and I'm constantly inspired to create. So I must, I must, and so, like, I work with a lot of creative people specifically, especially virtually who are musicians and painters and writers and all doing these interesting things, and it's something that I tell them about because, you know, like I said, a lot of people's introductory point is hey, I want to lose the cloudiness of the mind, I want to change my relationship to whatever my neuroses is, because everybody's got different ones, and so that's like the great reason to get started. But what's really cool is when those things start to get figured out more and more and you do change your relationship to neuroses, you do become more calm, your amygdala quite literally shrinks and your fight or flight is completely changed. And when all those things start happening, there is a whole new layer to it, which is that aliveness, that energy that I just shared with you.
Speaker 2:And I like to talk about that, even though it's kind of hard to discuss because it does seem a little bit liminal and like hard to describe. But I like to talk about it because if you're in that first part where you're still working on your meditation practice and you're going through hard days of like feeling like you haven't gotten over, gotten, you know, changed that relationship to those hard things and you're like like I want people to know, like, hey, you will, it's slowly but surely you will. And also there's this other part that's really exciting coming your way if you stick with it.
Speaker 1:Let's tie it into the markers, because we'll tie both together, because you said there were some markers that you could mention.
Speaker 2:I would say the biggest one I like to share that I think a lot of people relate to, which you know, my whole thing with teaching is I want people to feel like they can relate, like it's down to earth. It's not this like mysterious, you know it can be this mysterious, exciting thing, but I like to have people have applicable stories told to them. So one of my anxieties was I hated driving in the rain. So I was in car accidents when I was younger. Both of them I wasn't driving, but they were both in the rain and they were both like total cars. So it was pretty like traumatic experiences. Thankfully, me and all the people I was with were okay in those. But you know, nonetheless wasn't excited about driving in the rain.
Speaker 2:After having experienced those situations and it was very much so like an issue like I did not like doing it. I would be very anxious during it. I would do like show up to work that was raining. It wasn't so crazy that I would like leave my house, but it would be hard. It would be a difficult experience when I did and the big marker was I had a concert I was going to and we woke up that day and my partner had checked and saw it was going to rain and it was two hours away and it was so funny because it's so, I love to tell this part of the story because it's not like it's so important to like how people can know you around you and how you do seem to have limitations, and like, right then in there his response was like okay, like we're not going to this concert, it's just like not going to happen, because I know this person, they're not going to want to drive two hours in the rain, they're not going to be driven two hours in the rain where they don't have control, and it's just not going to happen. But you know, I was very excited about it and I was getting ready for it and they were like he was like you know, oh, you know it's going to rain, Like he wasn't trying not to go, he just wanted to make sure I knew what was on the table and I was like, you know, I really want to do this.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to use my meditation practice, and this was before I was a teacher. I was like I'm just going to use my meditation practice while I'm driving and he's like okay, like he kind of just like didn't want to. He wanted to let me go in, confident, Like why would I let her? Let her try, let's see how it goes. I guess we have to turn around. We have to turn around. And so we went and I was like fine, I genuinely it was not even like coming up, it wasn't even like coming up anymore. And he was like listen, I don't want to like ruin this, but like this is weird, Like it's weird to see you not.
Speaker 2:And I was just like you know, I'm doing the practice, the mindfulness practice, you know, which tells me to come to the present moment, focus on my breath. In this case, when thoughts arise that are going to create stories about how I'm definitely about to hydroplane or someone's definitely about to smash into me or a deer is definitely going to come out, I'm not going to be able to stop and sign like all the, all the stories that come up when you're having anxiety, that are so creative. When they would come up, I would just say thinking and let them go and come back to my breath and driving, and it's like it sounds so simple. But try telling someone that who's never meditated, who's in that anxiety. They're going to look at you like you're an asshole. They're going to be like it's not what, what do you mean? Just relax.
Speaker 2:No, and it's because they, because they genuinely can't believe.
Speaker 2:They don't believe it because they never tried it, They've never seen it, They've never, you know, spent time as that conscious observer who sees the thought arise and notices it, lets it go and knows how to do that, and it's like that's an actual workout.
Speaker 2:And just to me, it's in the same way as someone who, you know, lifts weights they're going to be able to lift something heavier than someone who doesn't. It's just like, if you've done the work over and over and over, you're in your mind, you're creating a new neural pathway that allows you to feel differently in that situation. You've created the practice of saying, hey, my thought does go away when I let it go. It actually does. I do forget about it, it does go away and I don't have to attach to it and get in drug along with it. And you can't do that until you've practiced it. So it was just like a very clear moment, you know, and it helped to have someone outside the situation. See me be different in a situation where you know a few, three or four years before it would have gone down differently.
Speaker 1:That's a great story. And as soon as you said it. I'm thinking about people who may not have meditated before. Their question is how did you drive with their eyes closed?
Speaker 2:No, yeah, hey, and in the mindfulness practice you don't close your eyes. That's one of the coolest things about that practice. If you're not doing it, you should try it. Your eyes are open, and what I like about that is it's another new challenge, right? Because then you have visual distraction, but you also are able to carry that clarity you cultivate so much more easily out into your life, which is where it really counts, right, like anyone can be really great at being, like you know, holier than now sitting on the cushion, meditating in silence. But can they be kind outside of that cushion? Can they be gentle with others outside of that cushion? Can they actually bring that clarity and that intentional way of being mindful and living outside of their practice? Because if they can't, then what are they even doing it for?
Speaker 1:I started with. This is about stress.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you think meditation, the main purpose of it, is to reduce stress, or do you see it from a different angle?
Speaker 2:I definitely see it from a lot of angles. It seems like it becomes a thing where the more I practice and the more I dive in and each year, I mean even each session, even each session with a student it's like I discover more and more how interesting it is and how interconnected it is to almost every facet of life, like presence and nowness, and like being connected to here and now is the point. It's almost like it almost is like let's see, one of the great Alan Watts quotes I loved when I first started meditating was about how you know, you don't listen to a song to hurry up and get through it. You listen to a song to enjoy being in it. So it's like, oh okay, the more and more I meditate, the more I see different angles.
Speaker 2:I think stress reduction is a great. I think it's great that people think that that's the main purpose, because I think that's better than not seeing any benefit and never even trying. So it's like I'm a huge advocate for being like yeah, if that's what your goal is, then make that your goal and work towards that. But I think that it does continue to surprise me how many different angles you can really look at that from.
Speaker 1:So stress is a reduction in, stress is a byproduct.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's yeah.
Speaker 2:I would say yeah because I would say that presence is the is the purpose. If you have to give full purpose to it, presence is the purpose, but when you're, I mean, think about it like, if you want, it is a byproduct, I guess, because if you're present, you're here right now, with me, right here, in this moment, like I can see a tree outside. It's a nice, beautiful day, we're having a nice conversation, we're using our minds. You're seemingly having a nice conversation, I hope, and there's nothing to be stressed about.
Speaker 2:But if we weren't present, I could be thinking about a to-do list I haven't completed and then I wouldn't be able to engage in this conversation fully because I'd be somewhere else, stressed, or I'd be thinking about something that happened, you know, 10 years ago, that I'm still like dealing with or moving through or Saint Vice versa for you.
Speaker 2:But if we're present and we're just focused on the person in front of us and we're actually, we're deeply listening and we're not letting our mind take us elsewhere, then there's no problem. Sometimes, when you're present, there is a problem, but if you're able to be present in that problem, instead of making narratives about what that problem means or what that means for now or the future, or what if you're a president? You're way better out to handle it Because you're able to like look at it Soon as stories start coming up. You're able to investigate those stories, decide is there even any truth to them, or am I just like doing bad fanfiction in my head? If I'm doing bad fanfiction in my head, let it go. Come back here. What can I do right now, here, and almost every time that stress reduction leaves, because most of stress is almost imagined unless it's physical pain. And then there is another element to it that mindfulness and meditation can help, which is pretty interesting, but there's still researching all that, so I'm always careful to talk about that.
Speaker 1:I've given a lot of thought over the last probably three or four years to present moment and if you think about it, it's very rare that in the very present moment that there's an issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, most times there's not, it's almost always before or after that you're thinking about like the actual moment that you're in. It's very rare that you're in any threat, danger or survival mode. It's usually you've jumped ahead and you put your spin on the story or, as you've said, looking back, putting your spin on the story. I've read a lot of Michael Singer and he talks about our human tendencies to describe the situation, to make it make sense to us and set up just seeing it for what it is, which, again, is going back to present moment. We don't, we don't have to put a narrative on it. We can just see the sunset. We don't need to describe it, it's there, just watch it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like I said, when I said most of the time, I mean he's fully right about that.
Speaker 2:I haven't read that book, but it's fully true that if you're here and you're present most of the time, everything's fine.
Speaker 2:And we really do, unfortunately, as a species, and a lot of it seems to be tied to being human and the fact that actually we were under threat a lot of the time, hundreds of years ago, and we're still dealing with that sort of biology.
Speaker 2:So I think that's where these things come in to huge benefit, because it's like that fight or fly like we talked about earlier, that ability to, if you do have anxiety, make these stories up or depression, the lies about how everything is so horrible, and it's like that's where that gratitude and that present moment can kind of come together. Because if you're in your example that you used at the sunset and you're not wasting time describing it or wasting time thinking about comparing it to another sunset, or you're not lost and you're actually in it, then you're in it and that's a special feeling. And anyone who's ever had that moment by a beach, on vacation or has a spot that they hike to and when you say, oh, you know, oh, you're there, you're in it, then people know what you mean, and that's like the same feeling that you can completely feel within yourself if you're meditating.
Speaker 1:It's funny you brought up comparison. He brings that up as well how we ruin things by comparing it and when we try to go back to the previous sunset or the previous time at the restaurant, instead of just staying where you are and not again trying to describe it, just living and being with it.
Speaker 2:I mean our brains are so powerful they can generate some of the most beautiful, wonderful, exciting things, and they continue to do so. But I like to think that they are also flawed. You know, I mean they're not a computer. If you want to compare it to like a computer system, you know they're not always accurate. There's bugs, there are definitely bugs, and you know. That comparison you mentioned like that's a huge bug. Why would you ever compare yourself to someone else? We only do that because you were raised in the society we're raised in and like that's all programming and that's another. I mean that's a whole rabbit hole.
Speaker 2:But that's another thing that happens when you start to becoming a meditator is oh my gosh, all these programs. I can just let go of people pleasing, extending myself too far. You know like oh, there's like so many things, like as a man and as a woman and like any experience, like there's so many the country you're in, like there are so many, there's so much conditioning going on that has nothing to do with who you actually are, and you start to be able to shed some of those unwanted conditions the more and more you get to know yourself. I say a lot of times one of my favorite teachers named Pema children and she said meditation is like making friends with yourself, like you finally get to meet yourself, you finally get to shake hands and you finally get to be like. This is who we really are.
Speaker 2:And I don't think that undoing stops Like I think that lasts the whole time.
Speaker 1:If I had to guess, I have so many thoughts going through my head based on your one comment. It's okay, because the number one punishment we can give human beings is to put them in solitude, because most people can't stand their own thoughts. So, as you were talking, that's what I was thinking, and then I jumped to specifically, social media and food. We have scientists being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to make sure when we eat the food, we want more. We have people being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year so that when you see something on Instagram or Facebook and you like it, you keep on scrolling and you keep on scrolling and four hours later you're like what the heck just happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, as we're talking about being present, it's a great way to overcome all of that. Yeah, just based on how you're describing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's no secret to anyone paying attention Our attention is for sale. Our ability to distract is never been more easy. You know, it's never been more easy to completely numb yourself and there's a lot of people making money off people doing that and there's a lot of people, like you said, you know, making money off of your attention. And so I think meditation is helpful for that, because if you meditate for 20 minutes, you at worst if you're saying you have a bad sit, which doesn't exist, but you at worst had a really hard time letting go and you had to say, thinking a thousand times in your head and you had to not let yourself be yourself up about it. But here's what happened there If you had a bad sit, you just got really, really good and got a bunch of reps in on seeing a thought arise that you don't need and letting it go.
Speaker 2:So there's no such thing as bad set, even if that's what happened for the full 20 minutes. But even if you had a bad sit, that 20 minutes of training, your ability to become the conscious observer and not caught, or the thought itself, is way more valuable than the 20 minutes that goes by and feels like two, when you're letting your dopamine get, you know, blasted with everything that they know you like and it's like you know. If you're aware of that, then you would think you care to make sure that that's not overtaking your life and becoming. You know, this addictive trait that lets you escape and not deal and feel. Not deal and feel is what I like to say. Or it's a tool. You use it, don't let it use you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, it's a yeah. If you're using a product that's free, that means you are the product.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, for sure, Somebody's getting paid somewhere for that reason.
Speaker 2:Exactly, but yeah, it can help with that, because I mean, if you start getting present, you start building this community. You go to your local, you know yoga studio or you meet a teacher it doesn't have to be me, but you meet a teacher, you align with online and you start taking virtual sessions with them and you start building a relationship. You just start to see, oh my gosh, this is so much more valuable than that. This is so much more valuable than watching, you know, five seasons of a reality TV show. And it's not to say we shouldn't all take loads off. It's not to say we shouldn't, all you know, watch a TV show for an hour a day or scroll on our phone for two hours listening to music we like or are we like?
Speaker 2:It's like, just be intentional. Don't allow those times when you are participating I say like participating in the culture a lot, if you're participating in it, just make sure you know that's what you're doing and make sure you're you know inspiring yourself and you know giving love to people that are like you and like you know that are putting things out there that you align with, that you think are helpful, like listening to a podcast while you're doing the dishes, or you know put on makeup or, you know, going on a drive. It's like that's great, like that's so healthy to like seek those things out. Just don't confuse that with feeling bad about yourself in this comparison game of scrolling through, you know, social media. Just don't con those aren't the same thing, like it's not the same to seek out education or interest online as it is to just scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll.
Speaker 1:So you're saying five seasons of Love Island is not good for me.
Speaker 2:It's not, it is very. Those accents are very entertaining. It's great if you're doing like a psychological study and you're like, whoa, look where they're caught. I guess if you're doing it like hilariously, as a oh, that guy really has an ego problem, you know like, if you're doing that that's pretty funny, but even then it's bad for you because you're just sitting there passing judgment and you know judgment's bad. So we try to practice non-judgment.
Speaker 1:I admittedly binge Love Island last week and I shouldn't admit that publicly, but I just did. So there we go.
Speaker 2:You can edit it out, I won't call you out. I won't call you out if you edit it.
Speaker 1:I'm fine with it. It happens to the best of us.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Don't have to be yourself up about it, just know what's going on.
Speaker 1:There's not another season until next year, so good for a while.
Speaker 2:Got a year at least.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a full year. So I have a friend. I can picture her in my head saying this I can't meditate, it's not for me. Yeah, I met a lot of people like that. Yeah, I bet you did Some of my favorite people say that, you know, I don't find it offensive. What do you do with those people?
Speaker 2:First of all, I don't take offense. I just say you know, I try to get curious and I try to let them explore, Like I invite it as an invitation for them to explore why they think that is.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So I usually say you know, okay, you know why do you think that is Like where's the struggle for you? And usually it's a lot of different reasons, but I would say like the most common one I hear is that it's too hard for them to sit still, or that it they can't quiet their mind.
Speaker 1:That's the one I hear the most is my mind doesn't go quiet for that long.
Speaker 2:And I just say, like it's not supposed to, like it's not. I mean it can. You can totally enter like these amazing moments of bliss where you're just almost like smiling on your cushion with gratitude and joy for the present. But it's not like that every sit, even for teachers. And any teacher who tells you it's like that all the time, I don't know, I just think they're lying. But you're not supposed to go silent, you're supposed to empower yourself enough to practice. I like to tell them about what I like to call the river, because any age group gets this, whether it's little kids I'm talking to, are grown adults.
Speaker 2:Your thought stream is like a river. It's always flowing, never stops flowing, usually if you're not present, or you're just in that fight or flight response where you're just surviving. You're just moving through the day, surviving every moment you're in the river. You're floating right down the river too, and every emotion, thought, perception, you're seeing them and you couldn't even conceive of not doing that. That's just where you are In meditation.
Speaker 2:You're practicing seeing that river and, instead of being in it, becoming the bystander standing next to it. So it's almost like you're watching the river go by. You're seeing the big, clunky, broken branches, bad thoughts going through. You're seeing the I'm not doing this right or this isn't working. This is a waste of time. You can't wait for the person you're describing Whatever thoughts they might be starting to have, or I can't sit still any of those. Instead, you're practicing going. Okay, there it is. It's me telling myself I can't sit still. But hey, there it goes. Where's my breath? Okay, I'm going back to it. And you just keep doing that over and over. And anyone who actually doesn't, anyone who tries to stick with it that I have heard that same complaint from says, at the very least, it did empower them to know they didn't have to believe every shitty thing their mind thought of and they didn't have to believe they were incapable of sitting still.
Speaker 1:I like that you brought that analogy up. One of the guided meditations I did years ago they suggest and I loved it was to take your thought and place it on a leaf and watch it flow down the river.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a good visual. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, it's just saying like I see you Letting you go, yeah.
Speaker 1:I thought you were going to say I was like that'd be really cool.
Speaker 2:But yes.
Speaker 1:For that person or people listening that have struggled with meditation, this five minutes to start is 10 minutes to start. How, where would you guide them to go if they would just want to start on their own? Guide it meditation, breath work.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I would say that find a teacher again doesn't have to be me. I want to be clear about that. If you'd like to do things in person and you're not in Ohio, I get it. If you want to do it virtually, do it. I say find a teacher because of what I mentioned earlier. The second I found a teacher. Everything got way clearer and it became way easier than it had been the years I had been just alone Like loan-wulfing it. We will. And, of course, like with many things in life, the more you're open to someone else's help, you tend to, you tend to do better. So maybe find a teacher so that you can have a relationship and someone to bounce those sort of things off of as you go through your experience.
Speaker 2:If that's not accessible to you for any reason, trying to do five to 10 minutes. If it's really hard, If you feel the need to time it, try to do 20. If you don't feel the need to time it and you don't feel like you have to wait for an alarm to tell you when to stop, and you have the freedom to know. Oh, you know, I'm not going to sit for too long Like I'm not going to be late for something I have time today Just sit. Just sit down, get present, connect with the breath and do it for as long as you want and don't put like parameters on it, because then that's just your mind trying to be like I can make it to 20 minutes. Then it's just like you're creating all this hub love when you're trying to just be here. So if you can not set an alarm and you know that doesn't give you stress to not do that, then do that. If it gives you stress, don't overthink it. Set the alarm for 20 minutes. You won't regret gifting yourself that.
Speaker 1:You won't the sitting for 15 minutes and being quiet. Do you think there's much of a difference in terms of your reward if you sit for 15 minutes in quiet or 20 minutes my frame is arbitrary or going for a walk for 15 or 20 minutes. And when I say going for a walk for 15 or 20 minutes, that's not listening to a podcast, that's not listening to music, that's just being present in your walk and in your mind.
Speaker 2:This is some Do you think there's a much of a difference between the two. I think there is a difference. But there is this thing I teach called walking meditation. I didn't come up with it.
Speaker 2:It's been around for a very very long time but to bed and monks do it every morning. But walking meditation is something you can do where and this would be a great avenue for someone to start if they have a really hard time sitting still but you're walking around. Instead of listening to a show or being distracted by something, you're just observing nature, you're connecting with the breath and you're walking and you're not trying to make any stories up about how the walk's going blah, blah, blah that we've talked about today. You're just present. So that is another very healthy way, I think, to practice presence.
Speaker 2:I do think there are different things that happen when you do take your seat and you actually have this intentional meditation. But I mean explore. I love telling my students about different types of meditation. I often tell my students you have time in their day to really devote to a practice. Do the walking meditation, then do your breath work, then do your mindfulness sit. You can fit all that in an hour. That's a very small part of your day that you could really see growth and change in yourself.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you're familiar with who Ray Dalio is. He was one of the biggest hedge fund managers in the world, very wealthy, very busy man. He took time to meditate twice a day for 20 minutes. If he can find time, we all can. We all can.
Speaker 2:If you think, if you try to tell me you can't look at your screen time, and let me know if you could subtract an hour from it. Bet you could.
Speaker 1:Or wake up 10 minutes earlier, or, my friend, there are workarounds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are workarounds and include people. I mean you can be the busiest person in the world and you can tell your whole family, hey, we're going to meditate for 20 minutes together. I mean you can make it work. And here's the thing it's going to cost you time to work on the issues that come up when you don't. So it's going to take you time to keep redirecting your focus all day long because it's caught elsewhere. So it's like, if time is your issue, I would consider the time you're going to save by having clarity and intention in place.
Speaker 1:That reminds me of working out. If you don't take the time to work out now, later on down the road you'll be taking time to go to the doctor because you're not going to be able to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:So take the time now or take the time later.
Speaker 2:How do you think it's helped you?
Speaker 1:Meditation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you don't mind me asking.
Speaker 1:I do have the ability to sit still. Actually, it's funny that you asked that question. My number one meditation memory where it helped me was the first time I had a 45 minute MRI, because you hear stories about MRIs and I'll never say that an MRI is fun ever. But in the MRI for 45 minutes where you're looking at this thing that's too which is a front of your face, and you're hearing these loud noises like they give you a panic button for a reason, I meditated for 45 minutes. I've yet to have an issue with an MRI. I hope that doesn't change next month, but at this point I focus on my breathing the whole time and it flies by.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you found a way to deal with what would otherwise be an easily anxiety-ridden situation.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. When I started, I was exploring different types of religions at one point and I was going to Buddhist meditations and that's where I learned how to meditate and it was with a group. I really enjoyed it. That's why I stopped doing it. That makes sense, but anyway, it's true. You can always get back on the horse, oh no for sure, and lately I've been doing a lot of NSDR non-sleepy breast meditation there's another name for it, I can't think of it but I've found that really helpful and it is better than napping.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It is. It's better than napping. I feel much more rejuvenated when I come out of it. I do it for 15 or 20 minutes during the day. I actually have to set an alarm because a couple of times I went right out and going to bed at night. I'm serious 15 minutes because all you're doing is breathing and focusing on different parts of the body and just paying attention to all of your body, which is also good to figure out what's going on in your body, because where your aches and pains are or where you're carrying your stress. So it works during the day and then at night I get better sleep If I flip on the 60 minute NSDR and it's not taking away from anything because I'm going to bed anyway and I'll be gone before it's over. It happens every time. So that's how I've been using it probably the last three or four months, consistently.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Good to hear.
Speaker 1:NSDR is a game changer for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good to hear that you mentioned MS4, that you've had stress reduction from it, because, like I described before, we're in this really incredible time where the meditator's journey was just between them and then possibly an instructor if they had one. Well, now we're able to do these brain scans, we're able to use them, we're able to use machines to see what is actually happening, because we've had reports from meditators forever that their lives are changed or that they were able to release pain they were feeling, they were able to let go. There was actually so much science going into this now and it's such an exciting time to be alive and a meditator because you get to point to for people who aren't interested on the spiritual side or aren't interested in any of those things, which I would say be curious about that there's some interesting stuff there. But even if you're not, you can see hey, look, here's someone's brain who was a meditator. They have studies now, lots of different ones.
Speaker 2:The most recent one I've read about was they had someone who was a meditator and a non-meditator and all they did was give them pain. They felt like a hot pain on them and they both felt it. Obviously, a meditator is immune to pain. They felt it, so their pain receptor lit up in their brain. But what they found insanely interesting, which makes so much sense to me, is that the meditators pain receptor went back to normal quickly and the other persons didn't, and it hung around. I think that that is what when we were talking about those stories we're talking about attachment to narratives and how we feel about it that's just someone being like oh, I was in pain, I'm in pain. The meditator went, pain was here, pain is gone. I'm present.
Speaker 1:They put the pain on the leaf and let it flow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they did. They put the pain on the leaf and let it flow and it's like if we can show that with science, then I think a lot more people should wake up to. Why not me? Why not investigate where I can let go more? Why not investigate where my presence can be more intentional, whether that is creatively, whether that is in my work, whether that is as a parent? Where can I be more mindful? How can I set an example for not overreacting in fight or flight response all day? That's going to be huge on your kids. How can I, in my workplace, be the person who is able to not lose their cool, who's able to make it fun, who's able to be the voice in the room of reason about how lucky we all are to be here today? Sometimes people aren't interested in hearing that person talk, and that's okay too, but there is nothing negative about the world becoming a more mindful place, because everything wrong with the world is due to short-sighted thinking and a lack of trust and, third and most importantly, mindlessness. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's just to completely out the window. Those are the root causes of all the problems, and that seems like to me the place we all need to focus, because if everyone in your community starts to become more mindful of their feelings and how they are in the world, you're going to literally, quite literally, have people in less car accidents because they're present, you're going to have people, so it can affect things on a very basic level. It doesn't have to be this big spiritual thing, but it can be too. It's like this really interesting practice that you can incorporate in your life, for you first, then it extends out to your family because of the being that you become, and then they become those beings and it just starts to reverberate out, like this Beautiful thing that reverberates out and can be boundless. And that's why I find it to be the most interesting practice you can incorporate in your life, even if you don't want to teach it, even if you don't want to talk about it, even if you don't want to investigate it too much.
Speaker 2:Think about it like brushing your teeth If you didn't brush your teeth, it wouldn't be good, right? We all know that fundamentally from when we're kids. We're told it, but we're never told hey, your mind. You've got to work on it Every day, you've got to be able to get clarity, you've got to be able to deal with whatever is going on up there and you've got to be able to be present in this moment so that you can act in the way and wish you to and I think most people wish to act in intentional ways, in a good way. It's just that we're not all able to do that because we haven't practiced being present.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the thing that excited about having you wanted to talk about this, and I don't think. I think a lot of people take meditation and make it some strange thing that's off in the distance, it doesn't affect them. But if we bring it back to reality and we bring it back to the world we live in, our mental health, as far as the world goes, is probably in the worst place it's ever been. People are not able to sit with their own thoughts. They can't even stand in line at the grocery store. Or if I look out my window and someone's crossing the crosswalk, they're on their phone Like I'm sure people a hundred years from now are going to find us all dead with our chins attached to our chest. It's awful. Stress kills. That's proven. That's scientific, that's done. Most meditation practices involves focusing on your breath. If you focus on your breath, your physiology changes. That's also proven. If you're depressed or you're angry and you pay attention to your breath, it is different than when you're calm.
Speaker 1:You can't be angry and have calm breath. No one can do it. It's not possible. If you can, that'd be really cool. You'll be at a science experiment, so go for it.
Speaker 2:That's why gratitude is the perfect antidote to nihilism. Because you can't be grateful. You can't be grateful and think there isn't nothing here worth being happy about or joyous about, or celebrating.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. Meditation, regardless of what people think of it. If you want to make it real simple, go back to stress and breath work. It's useful for everyone. Then go a step further, to mindfulness and being able to put the thought on a leaf and let it flow down the river instead of focusing on it. It's so powerful and it's such a powerful skill.
Speaker 1:I've talked about this in the podcast often. We all need outlets and we prioritize our outlets, I guess, and my outlet is with working out, and I do meditate through working out and breath. Work isn't working out because you need to breathe or you pass out, but I don't necessarily like I don't have music on in the background because I want to focus on what I'm doing and be present with what I'm doing, and that's my number one tool, and then the sleep one that I mentioned earlier. But the actual sitting. Still to your point, I am going to start working it back into my day because I think it is important. So, for those that are listening, that want to reach out to you or follow you or search you out and get locked into an algorithm and start swiping on you, where do they find you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I promise it won't be boring, but it's. Awarenesswithamandalincom is like my website. You can go in there and you can hear my show, which is awareness with Amanda Lynn, where I interview creatives and we explore all kinds of interesting topics, and if you want to meditate with me, that's also on the website. I'm most active on social media, on Instagram, which is just underscore A-M-A-N-D-O-L-I-N, and I'll send that all over to you too.
Speaker 1:Perfect. And then, once you check out Amanda, don't keep scrolling, you could get off that and go meditate.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, once you see my face, then you can hit follow, then you can be like, okay, I should probably get off my phone now and go meditate. Yeah, it's pretty funny.
Speaker 1:We're like don't get caught up in your phone, but follow her on Instagram.
Speaker 2:I know it's really funny Well that's what I meant. That's why I say it's a tool. You use it so like I love to use it for art, I love to use it for music, I love to use it to share about these topics, and I've connected to so many wonderful people. You just have to make sure you're using it and it's not using you, right.
Speaker 1:And being I think you said it earlier be intentional about what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yes, for sure, that will, that will. That will ex out any nonsense of you becoming, you know, addicted, because you'll be able to be like, oh wait, I need to go do the other thing I wanted to do. Let me go do the other thing I need to do, and if you're having trouble with that, meditation helps.
Speaker 1:Thank you. This was awesome. Your energy is off the charts. It was so cool because I've watched you as you. The more you got into it is like your energy just went up and up and up. So it's obviously something that you'll love and enjoy and feel passionately about, and I'm sure people who are listening could hear it in your voice throughout. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. I appreciate it and I'm glad that you're taking the time to share your story with others and let people know what they can work on.
Speaker 1:Awesome Thanks, Amanda.
Speaker 2:Have a good one. Thank you, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you Thanks.